EW1 and D15A2 engines - differences in heads?

[Tom]

Hi All-

I have an 87 Honda civic 4 door sedan 5-speed that has been sitting at
my brothers place for at least 6 years now. It broke the camshaft due
to low oil (completely my fault) and wasted the camshaft journals in
the head. I bought an 87 head from a junk yard - D15A2 - and had a
valve job done on it. I was in the process of re-installing the head
this week when I noticed something I was not aware of. I was checking
the engine block ID and noticed it is an EW1 block - NOT a D15A2 which
shows on the engine tag just above and to the left of the radiator. It
seems someone had replace the original engine with an older EW1 engine
before I bought the car. I have finished installing the head and
connected Intake and exhaust manifolds, and all other devices needed.
It starts right up and revs to approx 2500 RPM then immediately shuts
down. If you "feather" the gas it will stay running (although very
rough), and immediately dies if you let off the gas. I also get an
occasional backfire.

I have checked all vaccum hoses and lines 3 or 4 times. I have blocked
off all of the main manifold ports to eliminate manifold vacuum leaks.
I have made sure the valves are adjusted correctly and that the
camshaft pulley marks are where they should be at TDC. I just cant seem
to pinpoint the problem.

I am now wondering if there is a difference in the heads between a EW1
and D15A2 engine that would explain my problem. I bought the D15A2 head
and camshaft from an 87 manual transmission Civic - could there be a
difference in camshaft specs between an EW1 and D15A2 engine. I am not
sure what year the EW1 engine is from but I have the serial number in
case there is a way to cross reference engine numbers to years.

Any ideas?

Tom

[Elle]

Site http://www.superhonda.com/tech/honda_engine_codes.html
says the D15a2 goes with the Honda CRX HF (Carbed) 1984-1987

Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_E_engine says
the EW1 was used on
a.. 1984-1985 Honda Civic/CRX DX (unlabeled)
b.. 1984-1986 Honda Civic
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1301391 suggests
different.

Looking up the camshafts and cylinder heads for these models
at hondaautomotiveparts.com unfortunately suggests the EW1
and D15A2 have different heads and camshafts.

That's just the book side. Maybe ask also at
http://honda-tech.com/ . Searching for {EW1 swap} and then
{D15a2 swap} turns up some chatter about things to watch out
for. I don't see any discussion about swapping between
between the E series and D series. Perhaps for some obvious
reason over my head...

Post by Tom
Hi All-
I have an 87 Honda civic 4 door sedan 5-speed that has
been sitting at
my brothers place for at least 6 years now. It broke the
camshaft due
to low oil (completely my fault) and wasted the camshaft
journals in
the head. I bought an 87 head from a junk yard - D15A2 -
and had a
valve job done on it. I was in the process of
re-installing the head
this week when I noticed something I was not aware of. I
was checking
the engine block ID and noticed it is an EW1 block - NOT a
D15A2 which
shows on the engine tag just above and to the left of the
radiator. It
seems someone had replace the original engine with an
older EW1 engine
before I bought the car. I have finished installing the
head and
connected Intake and exhaust manifolds, and all other
devices needed.
It starts right up and revs to approx 2500 RPM then
immediately shuts
down. If you "feather" the gas it will stay running
(although very
rough), and immediately dies if you let off the gas. I
also get an
occasional backfire.
I have checked all vaccum hoses and lines 3 or 4 times. I
have blocked
off all of the main manifold ports to eliminate manifold
vacuum leaks.
I have made sure the valves are adjusted correctly and
that the
camshaft pulley marks are where they should be at TDC. I
just cant seem
to pinpoint the problem.
I am now wondering if there is a difference in the heads
between a EW1
and D15A2 engine that would explain my problem. I bought
the D15A2 head
and camshaft from an 87 manual transmission Civic - could
there be a
difference in camshaft specs between an EW1 and D15A2
engine. I am not
sure what year the EW1 engine is from but I have the
serial number in
case there is a way to cross reference engine numbers to
years.
Any ideas?
Tom

[Tom]

Post by Elle
Site http://www.superhonda.com/tech/honda_engine_codes.html
says the D15a2 goes with the Honda CRX HF (Carbed) 1984-1987
Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_E_engine says
the EW1 was used on
a.. 1984-1985 Honda Civic/CRX DX (unlabeled)
b.. 1984-1986 Honda Civic
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1301391 suggests
different.
Looking up the camshafts and cylinder heads for these models
at hondaautomotiveparts.com unfortunately suggests the EW1
and D15A2 have different heads and camshafts.
That's just the book side. Maybe ask also at
http://honda-tech.com/ . Searching for {EW1 swap} and then
{D15a2 swap} turns up some chatter about things to watch out
for. I don't see any discussion about swapping between
between the E series and D series. Perhaps for some obvious
reason over my head...

You have found what I have been discovering the past 2 weeks - nothing
but conflciting data exists for years 1984 thru 1987 when it comes to
engine blocks, heads, and engine numbers. Its very frustrating. But
thanks for all the good links - there was a lot of good information in
them - unfortunately nothing I could use. Even though Chilton and
Haynes say nothing about major differences between 87 D15A2 blocks and
heads and previous 84 thru 86 EW1 blocks and heads - I noticed that the
locating dowel pins are in different locations on the EW1 block and
D15A2 head - but everything else bolts up fine. There are 3 Studs in
place of head bolts on the block so I figured the head and gasket could
not be off enough to make a difference. But there could be a major
difference between an EW1 camshaft and a D15A2 camshaft which is
causing my problem. I cannot find any information anywhere to verify it
one way or the other.
I will run a compression test tomorrow to see if it tells me anything.
Thanks!
Tom

[Elle]

Post by Tom
You have found what I have been discovering the past 2
weeks - nothing
but conflciting data exists for years 1984 thru 1987 when
it comes to
engine blocks, heads, and engine numbers.

I agree there does not seem to be anything authoritative out
there other than some anecdotes about specific engine swaps
(though unfortunately none that I've found so far that is
exactly the configuration you are attempting).

FWIW, www.hondaswap.com is a forum specialized to Honda
engine swaps. I see it has a "Civic and CRX - EW" board,
with recent participation. Registration appears to be free.

This newsgroup does not see much discussion about the
vagaries of engine head/block etc. swapping.

snip

Post by Tom
there could be a major
difference between an EW1 camshaft and a D15A2 camshaft
which is
causing my problem. I cannot find any information anywhere
to verify it
one way or the other.

I would call Majestic and ask them, to cover all bases.

Of course, as I'm sure you are aware, it could be something
completely unrelated to the two heads.

[jim beam]

Post by Tom
Hi All-
I have an 87 Honda civic 4 door sedan 5-speed that has been sitting at
my brothers place for at least 6 years now. It broke the camshaft due
to low oil (completely my fault) and wasted the camshaft journals in
the head. I bought an 87 head from a junk yard - D15A2 - and had a
valve job done on it. I was in the process of re-installing the head
this week when I noticed something I was not aware of. I was checking
the engine block ID and noticed it is an EW1 block - NOT a D15A2 which
shows on the engine tag just above and to the left of the radiator. It
seems someone had replace the original engine with an older EW1 engine
before I bought the car. I have finished installing the head and
connected Intake and exhaust manifolds, and all other devices needed.
It starts right up and revs to approx 2500 RPM then immediately shuts
down. If you "feather" the gas it will stay running (although very
rough), and immediately dies if you let off the gas. I also get an
occasional backfire.
I have checked all vaccum hoses and lines 3 or 4 times. I have blocked
off all of the main manifold ports to eliminate manifold vacuum leaks.
I have made sure the valves are adjusted correctly and that the
camshaft pulley marks are where they should be at TDC. I just cant seem
to pinpoint the problem.
I am now wondering if there is a difference in the heads between a EW1
and D15A2 engine that would explain my problem. I bought the D15A2 head
and camshaft from an 87 manual transmission Civic - could there be a
difference in camshaft specs between an EW1 and D15A2 engine. I am not
sure what year the EW1 engine is from but I have the serial number in
case there is a way to cross reference engine numbers to years.
Any ideas?
Tom

all symptoms are classic cam timing is not set correctly. besides, if
this was the wrong head, it wouldn't go on at all.

additionally, if the previous cam ruined because of low oil, be prepared
for the block to be shot too. and you want to track down the reason why
the oil disappeared. next time, replace the whole motor. junkers are
cheap enough and will save you a /lot/ of messing about.

[Tom]

Post by jim beam
all symptoms are classic cam timing is not set correctly. besides, if
this was the wrong head, it wouldn't go on at all.
additionally, if the previous cam ruined because of low oil, be prepared
for the block to be shot too. and you want to track down the reason why
the oil disappeared. next time, replace the whole motor. junkers are
cheap enough and will save you a /lot/ of messing about.

Oil problem was leaving for California to Tuscon Arizona in too much of
a hurry and not checking oil level before I left. Oil lite came on 50
miles before Gila Bend and - with no towns inbetween - I decided to go
for it. The cam snapped about 15 miles down the road.Total stupidity on
my part. Sad part is the engine was running just perfect before my
screwup.
I have checked the cam timing on 5 separate occasions - I am confident
the timing is set correctly, but there is still a good chance there is
a difference between the 87 D15A2 camshaft and previous years EW1
camshaft timing - even though they are both for manual transaxles. That
is what I was hoping to find out. Depending on what source you use, I
have found varying degree's of conflicting information. I am finding it
very difficult to find a source I can depend upon. The Haynes and
Chiltons manuals are an absolute joke. Mis-information in both manuals
seem to have no end. All they are good for is kindling for the fire
place in my opinion.
Unfortunately, in Tuscon the Honda's are picked pretty clean.
One would think the heads would be the same if they slip over the studs
and everything bolts on ok. But consider this - the block has the head
locating pins on the two INSIDE holes, but the head has them on the far
OUTSIDE two holes! Since there are 3 studs in place of head bolts on
the block, I figured the locating pins were not that necessary. Its
just another ??? that makes me wonder how much else is different
between EW1 and D15A2.

Tom

[jim beam]

Post by Tom

Post by jim beam
all symptoms are classic cam timing is not set correctly. besides, if
this was the wrong head, it wouldn't go on at all.
additionally, if the previous cam ruined because of low oil, be prepared
for the block to be shot too. and you want to track down the reason why
the oil disappeared. next time, replace the whole motor. junkers are
cheap enough and will save you a /lot/ of messing about.

Oil problem was leaving for California to Tuscon Arizona in too much of
a hurry and not checking oil level before I left. Oil lite came on 50
miles before Gila Bend and - with no towns inbetween - I decided to go
for it. The cam snapped about 15 miles down the road.Total stupidity on
my part. Sad part is the engine was running just perfect before my
screwup.
I have checked the cam timing on 5 separate occasions - I am confident
the timing is set correctly, but there is still a good chance there is
a difference between the 87 D15A2 camshaft and previous years EW1
camshaft timing - even though they are both for manual transaxles.

that's more than likely the case. if you can't dig out a manual that
gives you the info, you may need to experiment. iirc, if it's coughing
out of the carb, the timing's too retarded, so advance it a tooth or
two. there should be a small degree of opening overlap between exhaust
and intake on the exhaust stroke of the piston, and that should be at
tdc - aim for that. obviously, rotate the crank by hand a few times
before firing to make sure it was re-toothed in the right direction and
that you don't get interference.

i have no idea of the specs for your vehicle, but fwiw, the difference
between the d15b2 and the d16a6 [same head] on the 88-91 civic is two
teeth. there's two sets of timing marks - in the former, two lines get
set parallel with the top of the head, in the latter, a single mark
aligns with a notch below the pulley wheel. if you have those features
on yours and they offer a tooth or two's difference, that's where i'd
start experimenting.

Post by Tom
That
is what I was hoping to find out. Depending on what source you use, I
have found varying degree's of conflicting information. I am finding it
very difficult to find a source I can depend upon. The Haynes and
Chiltons manuals are an absolute joke. Mis-information in both manuals
seem to have no end. All they are good for is kindling for the fire
place in my opinion.
Unfortunately, in Tuscon the Honda's are picked pretty clean.
One would think the heads would be the same if they slip over the studs
and everything bolts on ok. But consider this - the block has the head
locating pins on the two INSIDE holes, but the head has them on the far
OUTSIDE two holes! Since there are 3 studs in place of head bolts on
the block, I figured the locating pins were not that necessary. Its
just another ??? that makes me wonder how much else is different
between EW1 and D15A2.

if the head's on, doesn't leak, and the peripherals fit, i don't think
that's your biggest problem.

Post by Tom
Tom